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Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?

COW Blogs : walter biscardi's Blog : Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
I've been getting quite a few emails from folks asking a lot of questions about Davinci Resolve and Apple Color. Specifically, "which one is better?" That's a loaded question for a number of reasons, but not the least of which is, they're both just tools. Neither will make you a better colorist just because you have it. That takes the skill of the operator and taking the time to learn the craft.

Davinci has long been the standard in color enhancement for film and television upon which all other tools are measured. Name a feature film and it most likely was finished on a Davinci workstation. But for the longest time, it was really the only tool in town for film so naturally it became the defacto standard. Kind of like Avid when it first came on the scene as a Non Linear Editor. To this day, all NLE's are still compared to Avid because they are still considered the standard editing tool to judge against all other tools.

Color started out as Final Touch by a company called Silicon Color that was a lower cost competitor to Davinci. They really got noticed by the Final Cut Pro and NLE editors by offering support for grading with Quicktime files, something Davinci didn't support at the time. Suddenly people like me could spend $5,000 for Final Touch HD and have essentially the "power of Davinci color enhancement" on my Mac Desktop.

The big difference between the two products of course was realtime vs. rendering. Davinci did all color enhancement in realtime, no rendering, straight back out to tape. Final Touch required the user to render all files and then send back to the NLE for final output. Of course the other difference was the price. $5,000 for Final Touch HD vs. six figures for Davinci.

Then Apple purchased Silicon Color and Blackmagic Design purchased Davinci. Today we're sitting here with two absolutely incredible color enhancement tools available for use on our Mac Desktop and, yes, even the MacBook Pro. So now what do we do? Which tool is better. Short answer? Neither.

Which one is better depends on your particular application and how you like to work. If you work with Avid or Adobe Premiere, well then right now Resolve is your best choice because it has an easier workflow to / from the application because it's a third party app, not a proprietary Apple app. If you work with Final Cut Pro, well then you can go either way.

Color works with traditional color wheels and rooms. Resolve works with curves and nodes. Color can operate very well with just a mouse and a keyboard. Resolve requires a control surface such as a Tangent Wave panel to work efficiently. Color has a ColorFX room that can utilize third party plug-ins. Resolve does not have an FX room. Color has a one point motion tracker. Resolve has a motion tracker I have termed "Ludicrous Tracker" (look up "Spaceballs The Movie") because it's just ridiculously good. Color uses an XML workflow that supports speed changes, graphics and multiple video tracks from FCP. Resolve currently uses EDL and AAF using a single video track only. Resolve has better controls over Luminance and the Node architecture can make it easier to alter a scene after it's been graded. And the comparison list goes on and on....

I can create the same look on both Apple Color and Davinci Resolve. Well for that matter, I can create the same or similar looks using the Apple 3-Way Color Corrector or Magic Bullet Colorista II. Prior to getting Final Touch I graded many broadcast television shows using only the 3-Way CC and we continue to use both Colorista and Colorista II to grade projects as well. So you see, everything is just a tool.

In fact as I've been testing Resolve it has only shown me just how good Color really is. People amuse me by saying things like "Well now that Resolve it out, we don't have to use that wannabe Color." These folks need to feel superior so they put down a product that is a world class color correction tool just because "it's not Davinci." Well, go on and keep feeling superior and we'll just keep turning out happy clients and happy QC network engineers with our little ol' Apple Color.

Now at $999 why would you NOT put Resolve in your toolbox? BMD is giving anyone with a Mac the opportunity to have the same toolset available that has been used on thousands of feature films and broadcast television shows. This is a no brainer for me and we are adding it to our facility. Adding Resolve to our toolset just gives us one more option in post production. If we used it for nothing but the motion tracker alone, it would be worth the $999. But of course, it's much more than just that. Kudos to BMD for opening up the tool to everyone.

So the long and short of it is, a tool is just a tool. How good it is depends on your ability to operate it and, more importantly, to understand the craft that is associated with that tool. But at $999 it's also a no brainer to add Resolve to your toolkit if you have the funds for it and a control surface.....


Posted by: walter biscardi on Sep 15, 2010 at 4:14:05 amComments (30) color grading, post production

Comments

Re: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
i just have to say something here...first of all i totally agree with everyone that resolve is a very very good product...except for some quirks in the user interface, it is close to excellent. here's where i have a problem with all this comparison. let me start by saying that i don't have an edit suite per se. yes i have final cut of course but no avid or premiere or anything else. i'm a colorist not an editor. i would love to know what all the resolve fans would do in the following scenario:
imagine a client walks in with a completed project on a hard drive...lets say it was an avid project which i can import into final cut using automatic duck. next we send the project to color and it all goes in fine and i start grading.....so far so good.
now heres the fly in the ointment. once i'm finished i would usually render the thing out to the clients drive (saves time copying files over later) we quickly send everything back to fcp so we can have a peek at it only to find that the editor might want to change a few things. luckily all his media is on the drive so its not a train smash as i have final cut on my system and just let him make whatever changes and we either make a new sequence to grade the new shots or if it's only changing a few shots and not the time line we just re-open the project in color, link to the media and update the project. done and fairly painless. this is mostly down to the fact that fcp and color play so well with each other.....
now imagine for a minute that you only have davinci resolve in your little grading house, cause that's what you do, you are a colorist after all!
you did a fantastic job on the show, the client is thrilled but some shots may have to be changed, maybe a few dissolves need to be extended or removed altogether.how in the hell do you do that unless you can also provide a means for the client to re-edit? sure he could open up the project in fcp because you might have that anyway, but then you still need to get it all back into the resolve. are you gonna buy an avid as well just in case you have to do a quick re-edit with someone who isn't familiar with fcp...there are a few out there still. what if your client brought everything to you as a quicktime single track with dissolves and all that (oops there goes any handles already)? now he has to rush back to his place, fix up the mistakes or changes, re-export stuff for you. then run back to your place to re grade the stuff, which you then have to re-export for him so he can take it back to his place just to finish it all. can you not see where i am going with this?
yes davinci resolve is a great product, but unless you have a dedicated edit suite in your place you can't really offer the client the quickest and most painless turnaround. in my world 95% of my clients use fcp....yes it can be a bit limiting, but they also have color as part of their system. i recently did a job with a client who came from 2000 kilometers away. when we were all finished he flew home, finished up the online and everything was lovely, except for 2 shots the producer wanted to change. he phoned me in a panic. luckily for him i always copy the color project to a folder for my clients. in minutes i was able to talk him through opening the project in color,which he has because it comes with the package, apply the grade to the new shots and send it all back to final cut......finished! happy client! now i dare anyone to do that in resolve!
am i making sense yet? yes davinci resolve is a great tool and i would dearly love to have it someday, but fcp and color are fantastic together and once again proves to me that the integration between the two is its real strength. by the way i'm still waiting for someone to post the "real" cost of putting together a resolve suite versus a fcp color room! okay i've put it out there, now shoot me down!
Re: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Jack Tunnicliffe
I've used Color since it was Final Touch. Trained with Andrew Bryant who created the product. I recently purchased Davinci Resolve and doubt I will return to Color as much as I love the tool, having worked on many television series, commercials, features over the past years. For me Davinci Resolve is the more powerful tool. Walter mentions the amazing tracker... I use it on just about every shot. It's easy to track any object then move the window reshape in every way then program offsets to the tracking data with what Davinci calls dynamics, changing power window location, softness, size, as well as color changes.

Qualifying colors is so much better in Davinci Resolve. Once qualified, the matte can be feathered then it can be expanded or contracted. This drove me crazy in Color, always stuck with the default selection which usually gave up the secret that the color was qualified because the edge couldn't be feathered and expanded or contracted the way a composting program can.

Real time playback is the cat's meow. Play it up says the DP. Forget it in Color and no audio. Bring in any audio track into Davinci and playback everything in real time. You get a much better feel for the flow of the project you are grading.

I work mainly with Red material for the projects I work on. Color never fixed the pipeline for qualifying a Color with Red. Try qualifying a solid green properly for instance. The secondary rooms look at the raw file instead of the file after the red tab in Color. This was an add on to Color so not integrated properly.

Green screen material gets a slight halo even at full proxy in Color affecting edges ever so slightly and harming the ability to do perfect keys from green screen material originating as Red and rendered to an QT or DPX format.

Davinci support has been amazing. I hadn't expected this. I have run into some bugs and the developers have actually addressed specific issues over night and repaired them with a new build in the morning. That's amazing for a $1,000 piece of software.

I love the soft clips in Davinci. Instead of losing details in highlights you want to push beyond legal limits, slide in the soft clips, one for each RGB channel and watch the detail come back into the areas that would normally go flat.

You can bring in your offine and wipe to it, check any transformations done by the offline editor in terms of scale, rotation, pan, tilt and match it in Davinci on the fly.

The auto scene cut is very cool. Bring in a production with no edl and have it detect the scene changes and make the cuts. It's about 5 times real time and is pretty accurate. You can edit your conform after if something is wrong.

These are just points off the top of my head. Think I could think of many more. I still love Color but honestly I love Davinci Resolve more now. The unlimited nodes, the parallel nodes, and channel mixer nodes give me power I never had before.

That's my two cents.

Jack Tunnicliffe
Java Post Production

Re: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Illya Laney
Like I said...

"There's no logical way you can argue against this being hypocritical unless you willfully misinterpret my statement."

I should have written, "willfully misinterpret, completely ignore, or spin my statement."

twitter.com/illyalaney
Motion Design, Color, Editing
SWGC Incorporated
@Illya Laney
by kim krause
are you always such a stick in the mud.....give people a break already! we can all change our minds about the tools we use...that car your dad drove in the 1940's was probably fantastic for its time but times change and things move ahead.....what might have been okay years ago could be complete crap today...remember the ADO efx box...the greatest thing ever invented, cost a fortune and now imovie blows it out of the water.....lighten up!
@Illya Laney
by kim krause
are you always such a stick in the mud.....give people a break already! we can all change our minds about the tools we use...that car your dad drove in the 1940's was probably fantastic for its time but times change and things move ahead.....what might have been okay years ago could be complete crap today...remember the ADO efx box...the greatest thing ever invented, cost a fortune and now imovie blows it out of the water.....lighten up!
Re: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by David Sikes
I got into a conversation with the youth pastor at my church about bible translations. He said, "The old saying is, 'The best translation is the one you read.'"

I'd say this same spirit applies a lot here as well. The best tool is the one you use, work to improve in, and apply your knowledge to make some great stuff!

- David Sikes
Re: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by walter biscardi
That's hypocritical considering you were calling Color Finesse a "toy" a few years ago. Have you changed your attitude since then?

Illya, yeah Color Finesse is a clunky toy compared to Apple Color. A toy that some people find useful in their workflow but one that I would never use nor recommend. I will gladly use the Apple 3Way CC Tool over Color Finesse any day. So no, no changed attitude towards that particular tool since my original comment.


To be fair to Resolve, you've only done very shallow reviews so far

If you haven't noticed already, I'm not doing any sort of "reviews" about Resolve. I'm giving my opinions and comparisons to workflows between it and Color. The folks at BMD have been very appreciative of my comments and my work with them on the Beta program. My perspective from the Color side of things and especially working with 720p and ProRes workflows has been a big help.

My training is coming in the form of one on one sessions with David Catt, one of the original architects of Resolve and someone who runs the Linux version. I am fully aware of the "power and speed" of Resolve, particularly the Linux version. I can say in my hands on experience I see some differences in the apps and for some people this will result in a speed boost in their performance.

But I can't say that one is "clearly better" than the other because they aren't. If anything Resolve is very limited in the video workflow to / from NLEs at the moment, particularly the single track limitation. That's going to require more prep and planning to go into the app than we currently do for Color. Obviously with film, you rarely have more than one "track" so either we are going to have adjust our workflow or Resolve will open up to allow more tracks in the future.

But as I've said in my blog posts, they're both tools, use the one that works best for you. I really don't care which one you use, I plan to run both side by side which gives the best of all worlds.

If you want to write fully in-depth reviews and such, be my guest. Everyone on the Cow has a blog.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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@walter biscardi
by kim krause
we shouldnt be too surprised at Resolve's lack of layer support...after all like you said walter film from a telecine is essentially one linear layer that starts at the beginning and finishes at the end......davinci has always managed to convince people that they were the best because every one used it.....if i step back to my old film days i can remember being way more impressed by what pogle were doing compared to anything davinci would come out with...the first time i say a color correction controller with a tablet integrated into the surface i figured it was all over for davinci. the guys at pogle were the small fish in the big pond at the time but clearly were way ahead in their thinking. when it came time to order a new system i just knew which system i wanted to work on....however much to my dismay i was told by the beancounters at the office we had to have a davinci because thats what everyone used....i resigned shorty after!
and i've never touched film since.....sometimes being the biggest isn't always the best and to quote apple "thinking different" is all about being open to new ways of working. i still think the "davinci hype" is really just that.....next year someone else will lay claim to the crown...maybe i should start a rumor about the good folks at pandora bringing out a $100 version of the pogle with all the bells and whistles that will run on an ipad!
sign me up!hmmmm maybe i better call them up!
@kim krause
by walter biscardi
Hey Kim,

As BlackMagic has been a longtime supporter of all things Final Cut Pro, I would expect that Resolve's support for things like multiple video tracks and such will be forthcoming. I know they see this release on the Mac as a "first step" type of thing.

At NAB, Grant Petty told me an XML workflow would follow shortly on the heels of the public release of Resolve. Their main thing was to ensure that the product worked correctly before release. So far with our testing it's been very rock solid.

It's a beautiful world we live in right now. $2,000 gets you a full video production suite from Apple including the former $25,000 Color and Davinci Resolve. Could not have imagined that last year. My good friend, Ron Anderson has been a colorist for about 30 years now. He now moves effortlessly between Davinci 2k, Apple Color and Davinci Resolve. When Color came out a few years ago it gave him the opportunity start his own company without having to drop the kind of cash required for a Davinci. He's been grading feature films, RED projects and network broadcast programming. Now that Resolve is available, he's going to add that to his toolbox and will bounce back and forth depending on the job.

That's the one thing I really love about working with Ron. He's a big time colorist who has worked on "big stuff" for years. No snobbery at all that "well now that Resolve is out, I'm done with Color because it's clearly superior to Color." Nope, it's one more tool in the toolbox and he's thrilled to now have both options available.

Well, and he's also thrilled about the projection color suite we're setting up in our new place. I might regret giving him a key..... :)

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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@walter biscardi
by Illya Laney
You misinterpreted what I meant by "attitude." I thought it was pretty clear that I didn't want your opinion about Color Finesse. I was addressing your attitude in regards to the "tools" people use.

The quality of Color Finesse is besides the point. Calling it a toy goes against your overall theme here. It's not the tool, it's how you use it right? That's why your two posts contradict each other. You speak ill of DaVinci users looking down on Color, yet you're doing the same exact thing in regards to Color Finesse when you call it a "toy." There's no logical way you can argue against this being hypocritical unless you willfully misinterpret my statement.

BTW...reviews or comparisons....whatever word you want to use. They've been too shallow to create an accurate comparison so far.

twitter.com/illyalaney
Motion Design, Color, Editing
SWGC Incorporated
"Resolve - The Inside Story" Available for Pre-Order now!
by walter biscardi
BTW...reviews or comparisons....whatever word you want to use. They've been too shallow to create an accurate comparison so far.

My 500 page epic, "Resolve, The Inside Story" is available for pre-order now from Cow Publishing Incorporated. Only $199, but if you mention the secret code, "Petty," it can be yours for $189.

Included is a DVD demonstrating the perfect Wally Espresso. You really need to have a combination of the right beans, right water temperature and of course, a minimum 9 bars of pressure to get the best extraction from the beans. You simply cannot color grade without the best espresso.

A second DVD features Molly the Wonder Dog catching frisbees out back, because what's cuter than a dog catching frisbees, right? Keep that one running in a corner window while you work, it'll make you smile.

The third DVD features the standard interface demonstration where you can follow along page by page with Wally at the controls of a Tangent Wave Panel. Accompanied by the ever present cup of espresso. Think of it as an audio book with video. Wooo, better!

Act fast though because these babies will sell out in no time. Just call 555-5555 and remember to mention the secret code word "Petty" to get your incredible savings. The first 100 callers will get absolutely nothing additional, but you'll have the satisfaction of being the first on your block with this incredible book.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress.....

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Re: "Resolve - The Inside Story" Available for Pre-Order now!
by Joseph Owens
[walter biscardi] "the satisfaction of being the first "

Thanks, Walter! At last, this discussion has evolved into some meaningful commentary. What I have been looking for is an observation from Mike Most, but I gather he has long since vacated these premises. But.... this forum has never attracted a lot of the telecine crowd that has represented the traditional A-List since the dawn of color correction, so very unfortunately, their opinions will not be part of the dialogue. But really, is that what's important: Being first? Wearing the brand? I'm a "DaVinci Colorist"? Used to have to earn a certificate, and now you can just buy one. I'm sure that will enhance the value.

I find it interesting that so many resellers have finetuned their language and very often use the word "benefit" (which is in fact what consumers base their purchasing decisions on) even though the vendors are describing a "feature" of a product -- which is confusing. Along the lines of "BS baffles brains". There is a class of clientele that only compare products "feature-for-feature", and lose sight of what it is they actually do with the thing and how their clients perceive its value. Number one criteria for choosing a product or service (dwarfing all others, as usual), is- does it take away my specific pain (solve my problem without me having to invest a lot more personal pain)? But with another class of consumer, its "cachet", and you do have to charge a lot of money for that, strictly because that is the expectation, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the delivered product, which can be identical in form and function. That VW and the Porsche, for example.

That people support colorgrading, or invest in it, astonishes me sometimes, and although I intinsically understand the benefit, many, many members of the production community do not, and violently oppose even allocating assets to it. That we have these solutions is immensely gratifying, but comparing them like cars or flavours of soda pop is ludicrous. VW and Porsche are both owned by the same investment group, by the way, along with Audi. Compare an A4 with a Jetta. Same frame, same engine, only difference is the Quattro transmission and appointments, which actually makes the Audi heavier. But this is silly.

I launched my business with 'grade' as the "core offering", and it has dwindled continuously as a smaller and smaller slice of the pie chart as other services grew, and -- as it stands, in my market anyway, Resolve/Color is potayto, potahto. Well, until that potential freight train, 3D, pulls into the station, like the other 800-pound gorilla, HD, did a few years ago. That might make a difference. Might. But Mac will have to evolve to support that, or the whole Apple implementation will be for naught, and its Linux all the way. That is the real discussion IMHO.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?
Re: "Resolve - The Inside Story" Available for Pre-Order now!
by walter biscardi
[Joseph Owens] "VW and Porsche are both owned by the same investment group, by the way, along with Audi. Compare an A4 with a Jetta. Same frame, same engine, only difference is the Quattro transmission and appointments, which actually makes the Audi heavier. But this is silly."

This is kind of like Fox News getting all upset about the "money trail" for the "ground zero" Mosque when the money trail leads directly to their largest investor outside of the Murdoch family. "Wooo he's an evil money funder, but we like him because he supports our channel!" Weird.

One thing you definitely have to do in this industry is be willing to expand. REALLY difficult to have a "core" any longer. Our primary core is still editing, but that leads off to support DVD Authoring, Duplications, BluRay Authoring, web compression, graphic design, animations, color enhancement, etc... As clients requested a service we either partnered up with someone or brought the service in house. Like our new place will have a 5.1 surround sound room set up. We've never offered that but the tools are so inexpensive these days, it just made sense to set the room up and bring in local audio engineers to do the mixes.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the Linux deal. If you really want to run a full power Davinci, nothing on the Mac side will satisfy the end user. It's gotta be a fully powered Linux box. That's what David has been telling me and Ron as well. I love the fact that we now have the Mac option so I can install it without the need to purchase an entirely new infrastructure. But if we ever get to the point where it becomes the "go to" color tool of choice, then we will have to consider stepping up to the Linux box. I keep trying to get David to bring one here and then "just forget about it......" :)

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
couldnt have said it better walter...i just love color....its my tool of choice for many reasons. there would have no way i could have broken away form the big post houses and do my own thing if it wasnt for color. it has enabled me with the tools i need to make a living at my craft...if i had a few more bucks and a better mac and a control panel i might even look into the resolve but FOR ME, when it comes to ease of use, intuitive interface, quality of results and sheer bang for the buck...i love color...it has liberated me! i still get that funny corporate feeling from davinci....you are buying into an established brand but that's part of the problem.....sometimes different can be just as good!
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by David Sikes
Thanks so much for this post. As an amateur and a student, it is encouraging to know that we already have the tools - so we can stop focusing on worrying about our gear and instead focus on improving our skills! It especially helps hearing this from the professionals on this forum, from whom we have so much to learn.

Thanks!

- David Sikes
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by walter biscardi
[David Sikes] "As an amateur and a student, it is encouraging to know that we already have the tools - so we can stop focusing on worrying about our gear and instead focus on improving our skills!"

It's never about the tools. Better tools make it easier to do certain things and it might render faster, but a talented artist can turn out great work using pretty much anything.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Todd Jaspers
Can't we all be mad at Apple? Apple is loosing its high end credibility. We don't have to be nice to Apple anymore.

They are not the same, DaVinci is better :)
Apple Color has no support, no audio, no conform tools. Both Programs can move pixels and colors exactly the same, but how you get there is what makes DaVinci better and Apple Color worse.

I can take a Flat 6, Boxer engine from a Porsche 911 and put it in a 1982 VW rabbit. I could figure out a way to make both cars go as fast as each other. Which car would you rather drive?
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by walter biscardi
[Todd Jaspers] "Apple Color has no support, no audio, no conform tools. Both Programs can move pixels and colors exactly the same, but how you get there is what makes DaVinci better and Apple Color worse."

First off, what is with the audio? I see that time and again and all the colorists I know play music when grading. Myself included. Who cares about audio.

For conform, there's all sorts of easy workaround, but yes, Resolve is better at that. I don't have any issues with conform here because we handle the workflow very easily when changes need to be made in Color.

Ah but Color handles multiple tracks of video and speed changes with easy XML from / to FCP. Resolve is single video track only EDL. And? Just means a different workflow for Resolve, big deal.

I completely disagree that because Resolve and Color can arrive at the exact same result in different ways makes one better than the other. The car comparison doesn't apply here. They're both tools. Neither is "better." One will suit your situation better than the other but in our case, I prefer to have both of them, along with Colorista II and Magic Bullet Looks. Why limit yourself?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Jay Moffat
You're asking for trouble with this thread ;o)

Personally, talking from here in the UK, there is definitely a perception that Color is an inferior tool, while this is true in some respects in comparison to tools like Quantal and Baselight, and mostly related to workflows involving parallel effects and collaboration work, this doesn't stop people getting the job done. It does however mean that for some jobs Color is just not the realistic choice. I've not used a Davinci system yet, but if I do upgrade, sadly I'm sure the main reason I'll be doing it is for the brand perception, and external matte support and a better tracker of course...

Let's not forget though, if you do go the Resolve for Mac route you will probably not get the next installment of Inception coming through your doors just because you have Resolve, but you may well get some of the jobs denied to you due by ill-educated directors and producers.

It will be interesting to see if in the near future there will be a distinction in perception of clients between offering Resolve on the Mac vs Linux, I won't be surprised... "Oh, you have Resolve for Mac? We were really looking for someone with the proper Linux version"...etc etc...

I think a lot of us are hoping Apple will pull their fingers out, don't hold your breath though.

J
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by walter biscardi
[Jay Moffat] "It will be interesting to see if in the near future there will be a distinction in perception of clients between offering Resolve on the Mac vs Linux, I won't be surprised... "Oh, you have Resolve for Mac? We were really looking for someone with the proper Linux version"...etc etc..."

This is old news for me quite honestly and pretty much anyone who has been editing with Final Cut Pro for any length of time. I had to fight the same "perception" back in 2001 when Atlanta was an Avid town and all the Avid editors went out of their way to make sure clients knew how inferior of a tool it was.

Now it's the same with color enhancement. One tool can't possibly be as good as the other because it hasn't been around as long, doesn't cost the same, doesn't do realtime, yada yada yada. Same argument, new tool.

For colorists this might be something new but for non-linear editors, this is old hat. I win and keep clients the same way I did when fighting the "FCP Perception," the quality of the work that goes on screen for a reasonable price.

Those who "only want to work with this tool" will always do that regardless of the price, regardless of the tool or application.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Simon Astbury
Have to agree Jay, talking of the UK, there is a large degree of platform snobbery. The reason we are getting Resolve is that we have lost work specifically because we only have Color as a grading option. Production managers are starting to ask for "a Da Vinci Grade" or "a Baselight Grade". Getting Resolve will help us enormously in terms of brand recognition, I'm not saying it's better (although personally I think it is). We as a post house are competing in a very hard, cutthroat environment, we have 25 competitors all within a 5 minute walk, many of them have Baselight, Da Vinci etc Say what you like but a commercial client who is paying £400 per hour is always going to choose those platforms over Color, regardless of who is driving it.
This is a client driven business, all of my work is client attended and they like audio and real time playback. Those two things alone put Resolve above Color (for now).
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Jay Moffat
Hey Kim, I don't think many people here would dispute the pros of Color, and there is no substitute for a talented individual, the tool means very little without the talent. So yup, someone can easily create some load of rubbish on a Baselight, but that's not really the gripe.

There is a reality in the UK (unsure about the states, but I think things might be a little more open-minded over there), there are many ill-advised filmmakers demanding a certain system to grade their films on, not because they know what they are talking about, but because Baselight, Quantal, Davinci or Lustre are the words, not Apple Color. It's a reality, it doesn't mean there is no work for us out there, there is, but there would certainly be more if perceptions were different.

A couple of weeks ago I was called about grading a decent budget indie film... All happily chatting and I was asked what my system setup is, and then I knew that I was in trouble, the producer flatly said they were looking for Baselight or Lustre.

I sincerely hope Apple have something under their hat, not so much in features, but something which well help push perceptions in the market more favourably towards Apple Color, perhaps calling it something a bit more grownup for a start ;o)...

I know this is simplistic, there many reasons in choosing which system a filmmaker can use, budget, time constraints, familiarity, but if you're running a business and you find yourself in a position where you're exposed to projects where Apple Color is a no go, even if the reasons are bogus, then there is little choice but to either change market or change programme, sad but true...
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
just had to add that i was shocked to find out how much post houses were charging for color in the UK. if i was a client paying those rates i would be pissed off if i had to render and wait for stuff to finish as well....the whole point of color is it is a cost effective solution for those on a tight budget...i personally have regraded movies that have been done on a davinci and recently a doccie that was done on a baselight. at first the clients were a bit apprehensive that i could do the job for 1/5th of the cost but in the end the results spoke for themselves....don't knock color because of what it isn't...that's a huge injustice to avery capable tool that when put in the hands of a professional can yield great results....gotta keep it in perspective!
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
just had to add that i was shocked to find out how much post houses were charging for color in the UK. if i was a client paying those rates i would be pissed off if i had to render and wait for stuff to finish as well....the whole point of color is it is a cost effective solution for those on a tight budget...i personally have regraded movies that have been done on a davinci and recently a doccie that was done on a baselight. at first the clients were a bit apprehensive that i could do the job for 1/5th of the cost but in the end the results spoke for themselves....don't knock color because of what it isn't...that's a huge injustice to avery capable tool that when put in the hands of a professional can yield great results....gotta keep it in perspective!
@kim krause
by Illya Laney
[kim krause]
"the whole point of color is it is a cost effective solution for those on a tight budget"

Cost effectiveness isn't the whole point of Color. There's a few post studios and production companies I've worked with that can afford higher end systems(or already own them), but they use Color when it's convenient for their workflow. I love Color and will continue to use it, but you can't deny the awesome tools that Resolve has.

By the way, they apparently have a very dedicated team developing the app.

twitter.com/illyalaney
Motion Design, Color, Editing
SWGC Incorporated
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
once again you are so right....i don't want to listen to some unfinished mix while i'm grading....i can always click over to the fcp project or even a q.t. reference movie if i have to listen to anything.....
@walter biscardi
by Illya Laney
walter biscardi
"The car comparison doesn't apply here. They're both tools. Neither is "better." One will suit your situation better than the other but in our case, I prefer to have both of them, along with Colorista II and Magic Bullet Looks. Why limit yourself?"

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/223/3516

That's hypocritical considering you were calling Color Finesse a "toy" a few years ago. Have you changed your attitude since then?

To be fair to Resolve, you've only done very shallow reviews so far. After taking 10 hours of classes(not including hands on) along with reading the manual it's clear there is a vast difference in the capabilities of both apps. Resolve allows you to work faster, have more creative/versatile control, and see results immediately. One huge thing for me is layer priorities(especially when combined with tracking). That's worth the $995 price tag right there.

twitter.com/illyalaney
Motion Design, Color, Editing
SWGC Incorporated
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by kim krause
i have to disagree....i woud rather take the vw engine and drop it in the porsche......you can look great in it and you can be smug knowing you're saving a ton of money on petrol (read:operating expenses).....and besides who are we trying to impress at the end of the day anyway! it's about being comfortable with what you do and giving clients the best you can....would you rather do a job with a somewhat junior colorist working on the latest kit, or a well seasoned professional working with a modest toolset, knowing you're getting the best job done!
-1
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by Noah Kadner
Walter- very nice intro to a question that's going to come up a *lot*. Would love to see a more in-depth comparison article with images/movies. :)

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.
Re: Blog: Davinci Resolve and Apple Color: Which is Better?
by walter biscardi
[Noah Kadner] "Walter- very nice intro to a question that's going to come up a *lot*. Would love to see a more in-depth comparison article with images/movies. :)"

Did you see my blog with the Secondaries / Nodes comparison? Pretty darn easy to do the same thing with both apps.

http://blogs.creativecow.net/blog/3396/davinci-resolve-and-apple-color-seco...

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Professional Video Editor, Producer, Creative Director, Director since 1990.

Credits include multiple Emmys, Tellys, Aurora and CableAce Awards.

Creative Director for Georgia-Pacific and GP Studios, Atlanta. Former Owner / Operator of Biscardi Creative Media. The show you knew us best for was "Good Eats" on the Food Network. I developed the HD Post workflow and we also created all the animations for the series.

Favorite pastime is cooking with pizza on the grill one of my specialties. Each Christmas Eve we serve the Feast of the Seven Fishes, a traditional Italian seafood meal with approx. 30 items on the menu.

If I wasn't in video production I would either own a restaurant or a movie theater.

 




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