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Adobe Encore Button Routing still not correct for BluRay

COW Blogs : walter biscardi's Blog : Adobe Encore Button Routing still not correct for BluRay

7 months into our BluRay authoring experience with Adobe Encore and button routing still does not work correctly in the BluRay mode.  We're trying to create a very simple Chapter Selection menu, but no matter what we do, the last button in the menu is always auto selected when you choose the menu and when you want to return to the Chapter Menu, you can't, you always go back to the Main Menu.

We notified the head of the Encore team of this issue on May 28th and also notified him that we had a July 1st deadline for 5 retail BluRay titles.   They were supposed to download the files that day and get to work on it.   Then June 20 we were asked to upload the files again so they could get to work on it.

To date we have no solutions and essentially had to scrap the Chapter Menu on the titles.  Just a word of warning to anyone who wants to plunk down money for Encore CS3.  DVD authoring is fine, but if you intend to do BluRay discs, be prepared to make major concessions to the failings of this software. 

Posted by: walter biscardi on Jul 12, 2008 at 4:38:22 pmComments (10) dvd, adobe, bluray, hd dvd


Adobe still does not have answers
by walter biscardi

This gets soooooooo incredibly frustrating.   Adobe sends us a fix and it goes something like like this.  Go into Photoshop, reverse the layer order of all your Chapter Menu buttons, then go back into Encore and now your buttons will route correctly.  And they do.  IN ENCORE.

Burn the BluRay disc and pop it into your handy dandy BluRay player and the menu does not function correctly.

All I can figure is the Adobe team does not own a BluRay player of their own and their only testing is to run the BluRay simulation within the Application.  If you do that, then BluRay works perfectly!  So I guess instead of selling BluRay discs, we should sell Apple computers with Adobe Encore CS3 with the project already installed with instructions for the users to simply launch the project and watch it IN ENCORE.   Yes, yes, it's a BluRay disc with super high quality high definition, but wouldn't you rather watch it in low resolution Simulation Mode?  At least the menus work!

At this point it really feels like Adobe just threw in BluRay as an option without fully understanding what the heck they were doing.  I've been talking to other folks who work with major hollywood studios creating those commercial discs you purchase at home who tell me the specs on BluRay are just crazy to make every single feature work.  I guess Adobe figured if DVD isn't that hard, how bad could BluRay be?

I definitely am not getting my money's worth out of this application and really feel like Adobe is misleading a lot of people about the capabilities of their products.  It's one thing to say "this supports BluRay" it's other to make it actually function correctly in BluRay.  

There's been no updates to address any of these basic issues and it took Adobe over 2 months to get us "reverse the Photoshop layers" fix.  All in all, a disappointing situation just getting worse.

Maybe this is why Apple hasn't been so fast to jump into the BluRay arena, besides the obvious reason of competing with their own Apple TV.  BluRay ain't as easy as DVD Authoring. 

The really good thing about all of this is getting a lot of information from those who produce a lot more BluRay products than we do that exciting things are on the horizon for us "little guys."  NetBlender on Windows looks like they will be our short term answer, but long term I'm really excited about the Mac side of things.


Walter Biscardi, Jr.

Called Netblender
by walter biscardi

Ok, I had my Assistant call NetBlender and they truly are a month to month subscription based service.  I can activate a license this month, create some BluRays, then let the license lapse and just re-up it again whenever I need it.  VERY cool.  Windows only so I'll have to switch over to that platform for the BluRays but if it's going to get rid of all the Encore headaches, I'll definitely consider that.


Walter Biscardi, Jr.

I would never be without
by eric pautsch
I would never be without AfterEdit...its the best pre-mastering tool available...Mac or PC. In fact, There are only 2 reason I own a Mac...FCP and DVDAFterEdit :)

Yeah, makes me say "WTF"
by walter biscardi

Yeah, makes me say "WTF" with the Apple's thinking.  I guess now that they have Apple TV they really don't want this BluRay thing to succeed.

The only good side of all of this is that the BluRays look absolutely stunning.  I'll be calling the NetBlender folks later and will report back.  I'm not looking forward to having to get a honkin PC for that, but if it works as promised, then all this aggravation will go away.....

Walter Biscardi, Jr.

Wow... That's a shame.
by Wayne Carey

We are just starting to get into the Blu-Ray arena ourselves and I have been following your threads on the Blu-Ray nightmares.  I'm really interested in what you find out about Net Blender.

It is a REAL shame and Apple doesn't recognize this need and step up to the plate on Blu-Ray support for DVDSP, especially since the death of HD-DVD (which they did back).  Also, it odd to know that Apple was a member of the Blu-Ray Consortium that created the stardard for Blu-Ray.  Makes you say, "Hmmm.....". 

Problem only in BluRay, not DVD.
by walter biscardi

That's ESPECIALLY true for button routing. That's where tools like DVDAfterEdit come in. You lay out the basics in your general-purpose tool of choice like Encore or DVDSP. Then you come into DVDAE and start doing all the things that the DVD spec will let you, instead of being limited by those other apps. It's made exactly for situations like yours...

Except that button routing works perfectly in DVD mode. It's ONLY in BluRay mode that the button routing goes haywire. In our case we're selling the same product on DVD and BluRay. So we create the DVD project first, author and burn, then we take that same project and convert it to BluRay. Once we do that, all the button routing goes haywire.

Same is true if we create the projects in reverse order. BluRay project will not have button routing correct. Switch the project to DVD, boom, everything works.

Unfortunately, DVDEdit is not supporting BluRay at this time, they say it's coming soon, but not here yet. I am going to contact the NetBlender guys later to see discuss their product and whether I can simply go on a month to month basis or if there is a firm time commitment. For what we need, we could literally finish all the projects in a week since they're already built.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.

by Tim Wilson

Developers for tools like Encore, DVDSP and **every WYSIWYG tool on the planet** make their best choices for "average" use case scenarios. (Yes, they talk like that, which is part of the problem.) No matter how much they get right, you'll eventually need to do something that's outside the range of average.

That's ESPECIALLY true for button routing. That's where tools like DVDAfterEdit come in. You lay out the basics in your general-purpose tool of choice like Encore or DVDSP. Then you come into DVDAE and start doing all the things that the DVD spec will let you, instead of being limited by those other apps. It's made exactly for situations like yours...

...which admittedly is exacerbated by Encore getting some of the basics wrong too. Smile

Anyway, it's a Mac app -- one of the very few -- the only? - spec-level tools that is. There are different versions for different needs, but the top of the line is only $698. (It seems to me that that's the one you need.)

I'm still looking into it, but I think this may be the secret sauce that every pro Mac DVD author is going to need. Take a look, let me know what you think....

Upon further review
by walter biscardi

The HD Encoder software recommended for NetBlender is $20,000.  So I'll write to them and find out if the MPEG-2 and H.264 files from Compressor will work.  The quality of our video files is something that has not been a concern.


Walter Biscardi, Jr.

A little outside our price range
by walter biscardi

Looks like a great tool, but right now it's out of our price range, but good to see something that's less than Scenarist.  

If we had a Windows capable machine, I would try their 30 day trial.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.

by eric pautsch
Hi Walter

I would strongly consider trying Net Blender's authoring tool. I met with the CEO, John Harrington the other day and was impressed with what he had to say. I have yet to do any real testing on it yet but will start in the coming weeks. It even puts out a BDCMF image so you can deliver to a replicator. The best is their support....did I mention its only $250 a month :)


Professional Video Editor, Producer, Creative Director, Director since 1990.

Credits include multiple Emmys, Tellys, Aurora and CableAce Awards.

Creative Director for Georgia-Pacific and GP Studios, Atlanta. Former Owner / Operator of Biscardi Creative Media. The show you knew us best for was "Good Eats" on the Food Network. I developed the HD Post workflow and we also created all the animations for the series.

Favorite pastime is cooking with pizza on the grill one of my specialties. Each Christmas Eve we serve the Feast of the Seven Fishes, a traditional Italian seafood meal with approx. 30 items on the menu.

If I wasn't in video production I would either own a restaurant or a movie theater.



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